Is calling all-in with 72o really that bad?

beaston · 09-08-2008, 09:50 AM

This relates only to tournament play...

If you're short stacked (<= 10BB) late in a tournament and have 4 or 5 calls ahead of you that would put you all-in, would you call? Think about it...you have the chance to quintuple up, so why not call?

I ran the numbers with PokerStove last night, and against 4 random hands, 72o still has around a 13% chance to win. Against 3 random hands, the odds jump up to 16%.

So, if the blinds and antes are high and you're short stacked, think again about passing by a chance to quadruple or quintuple up. Of course you could pick a better spot to get your money in, but I'd be very tempted to take a shot of getting a lot of chips in one hand instead of having to push all in against 1 player and then having to double up a second time to get back in the game.

Biscuit · 09-08-2008, 11:13 AM

I would push with 72o in certain situations, but probably not the ones you list. If I can quintuple, then I want at least a 20% chance of winning the pot. Pushing is not a horrible play, but I think you're probably better off trying to get HU with someone and pray they have overcards. Then you can double or triple (depending on your stack and the blinds/antes) and still have a 40ish% chance of winning the hand.

If I was UTG and the blinds were about to wipe me out, I'd probably push first in with 72o, and pray for a single caller.

If I was in LP and had a few more hands, I'd wait for a face card before calling all-in.

But, I think your point is made - don't just dismiss the hand because its 72o. It may be playable if you're in a tight spot.

propiper · 09-08-2008, 12:12 PM

I agree - point made but to me it sure would be situational.

Any Ace vs 4 players would at least be in the 20-25% range (I'm lazy and didn't look it up

)

In this situation even with <10 bb's I'd have to wait because with 4 all ins in front you, you are dominated.

You could pretty much be assured you have live outs though! Make a heck of a "I cracked Aces" story

beaston · 09-08-2008, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by propiper

I agree - point made but to me it sure would be situational.

Any Ace vs 4 players would at least be in the 20-25% range (I'm lazy and didn't look it up

)

In this situation even with <10 bb's I'd have to wait because with 4 all ins in front you, you are dominated.

You could pretty much be assured you have live outs though! Make a heck of a "I cracked Aces" story

Ok, I just ran A6o against 4 random hands, and you're looking at just about 25%....good guess

PapaHun · 09-11-2008, 04:19 AM

Generally in tournament poker the vast majority of your accumulated chips will and should come from pots won without showdown - unless you are running insanely hot.

At first glance this seems like a trivially easy call (given enough callers in front) but it is actually a clear fold.

Chip EV (cEV) dictates a call - however - your gain from quadrupling up in regards of $EV (actual equity in the total prizepool) is less than the loss of $EV from when you bust out of the tournament in this spot like 85% of the time.

Even shortstacked you should find spots where you have added fold equity - a chance of winning the pot without any further resistance.

Calls like these actually make more sense in a HU situation vs only one opponent being the last to act and getting a good enough price. There are spots where you should call an allin from a relatively shortstack in the BB with virtually any two cards. Still you would like some high card value or connectedness/suitedness.