Biscuit

You're playing FRLH (full ring limit holdem) Its an average table, about 30% seeing the flop.

You are UTG with so you raise and the btn and the BB call.

flop comes so you've totally whiffed.

BB checks, so you bet out. BTN calls and BB folds.

turn comes

You bet out and button calls again.

River is

Do you "fire the third bullet" and bet at him again? Do you check - call, or check - fold if he bets? (Or check-raise, I suppose!)

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beaston

30% seeing the flop?

My guess would be that the button hit his 8. I would check/fold, but if I had brass balls, I'd check/raise.

Keep in mind I'm not a limit player...

dcputernut

No expert here, but since you have bet into it to this point..i would fire...if he raises, then i would be at a lose..LOL

...alot of people will protect that BB with their lives. but will then fold after river if other player bets.....he may even be waiting on A too.

that doesn't always work for me...but does sometimes...hehehe

Dyno_Don

Yes, go for it!

If I've been betting the whole time and the BTN has just been calling?

I'd bet again and if he raises, I'd raise again. This may give the BTN the idea that I have a pair or trips with the Q showing on the flop.

But that is just my theory. It's happened to me by matching two pair, but luckily I didn't raise to the all-in point. I got wise about half-way through the continual raising and finally called to find out the other person did had trips after all.

It's really hard to tell in limit Holdem though, when to quit.

Biscuit

As there are no obvious draws on the board, BTN probably has something here. Question is, what is it and would he lay it down to one more bet?

I think he won't lay it down to one more bet. At least, most players who will call a turn bet with an underpair here are also going to call a river bet. Not unless he has some pair less than 77, leaving 55 and 33. as the only hands he may have (that beat me) that he would now fold.

Worst case is he flopped a set of QQQ, 888 or 333, and he's been slow playing me. Most slow players raise the turn, but not all, so its a concern. I've also seen players do this with AA and KK, but not too often.

If he had a weak Q, like QJ, QT or Q9, he may just be calling down. A good player raises the flop there, but I try not to play good players, so he could be calling all the way. If I check here, he likely bets. He also calls my bet.

Almost all players raise the flop with AQ or KQ there.

A8 calls a bet. A2 might lay one down as all it beats is a flat out bluff from me. He has to have me on exactly AK to call with A2.

JJ, TT, 99 also all possible.

He could also be calling with AK or possibly AJ, and may lay them down to another bet.

So, of all the hands he might have, I beat very few, and of all the hands he might have, he lays down very few if I bet here. There's 6.25 big bets in the pot. If I bet another into it, I need to win about one time in seven to make it worth my while.

I don't think I have much fold equity, but I think it more likely he will fold than raise, although it is MOST likely he will call. If I check and he bets, I am beat, but I really want to see his cards.

This is not an easy decision! The good news on that is that you're not making a horrible mistake either way.

Here's what I do: If it's early in the session I check-call. I do this so I can see his cards and to give myself a weak table image. Someone will notice I don't like to bet the river with an unmade hand. This gives me a chance to fire that third bullet later in the session and have a better chance to get the fold I want because they may not put me on AK again.

If it's late in the session and I have check-folded here before, I fire away!

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propiper

I little late to the party here but here is what I would do -

Depending on what limit it is and the read on the player themselves -

I would check/call.

I agree, if you bet he most likely calls and if you check, if he is any good, he bets with anything seeing weakness.

30% is a fairly tight table so I can see him calling with KQ, QJ or QT especially if they are suited. I think QQ would have seen a check/raise on the turn which is a favorite play of most lower limit players.

So if he hit the Q he is calling you down with top pair and definitely betting if you check the river. I would pay also to see what he was holding.

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bobbysands90

I would probably reraise you off the hand if I landed any pair. AK is a suckers hand. People forget that 22 is better. Although it looks good, dont be afraid to check or drop it or you will be down in the long run

Biscuit

You would have trouble re-raising me since the only time I raised was pre-flop, and I wouldn't lay it down pre-flop for one more bet.

I agree with your assessment of how to play against AKo. Perhaps we could take that up in a different thread. This one is about playing with AKo.

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