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Old 09-23-2008, 02:43 AM   #1
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Thumbs down Bodog - Are you kidding me?

I got this email today:

The Bodog Poker Open is back! And we're offering you an exclusive opportunity to qualify for the Bodog Poker Open II Main Event Satellite Tournament.

The BPOII Main Event will be held on Sunday, October 5th. With an attractive $300,000 guaranteed up for grabs!

All you need to do to get in on the action is deposit $500 or more between now and Thursday, October 2nd. Then I'll credit your account with $109 Tournament Credits to buy in to one of the many BPOII Satellite Tournaments that we will be running on Saturday, October 4th and Sunday, October 5th. You'll have a 1 in 5 chance to win a $500 seat in the BPOII Main Event! And as if that wasn't enough, you're deposit will be eligible for our 100% reload bonus!

About the Bodog Poker Open II:
The Bodog Poker Open II kicks off on September 28th, and features 14 events, including bounty tournaments, added cash, and daily guaranteed prize pools up to $300,000! BPO II Qualifiers are running daily, with buy-ins as low as $22 and Tournament Credit bonuses for knocking out the Bodog Pros, Featured Players and past BPO winners!

So what are you waiting for?! Deposit now and get in on the action!

Good luck and good cards!

Bodog Poker Host
t: 1-866-909-ACES (2237)
Are you kidding me? Bodog must really be desperate if they're giving a $109 tournament entry away with only a $500 deposit. It sounds great, but do you really want to wait 40 business days to get paid? And what if the check bounces, like other people have reported?

Direct from their website; upon signing into my account (that I haven't logged in to since December '07):

Check By Courier Payout

Fees: Bodog will send you one FREE payout per calendar month
Additional requests will incur a US$ 40 processing fee

Once processed from your eCash account, a couriered check should arrive in approximately 40 business days (8 weeks). This delivery timeframe is only an estimate and may not reflect the actual date you receive your check.

If the address below is not correct, or is expected to change in the next 40 days, please submit an update prior to requesting a payout.
They claim to offer a "Money Transfer" (AKA: WU) option, but do you really want to pay these fees?

Note that a maximum of one Money Transfer transaction (either a deposit or payout) can be made every 5 days.

Once your payout is available for pickup, the sender's information and Control Code for the transfer will be provided via email. Please note, it may take up to 5 - 7 business days before your transfer is available for pickup.
Payout Amount Fee
$100 - $200 $40
$201 - $500 $50
$501 - $1000 $80
$1001 - $3000 $150
These fees are more ridiculous than trying to cash out to your bank via QuickTender (AKA: UseMyWallet.) Not only that, but c'mon.. with all the online gambling scrutiny that's going on right now, do you really want to take a chance of raising a red flag with WU by getting an overseas wire? And to add to it, with all the fraud going on now days, you're bound to get a million questions when you go to pick up the wire.

All in all, I give Bodog two thumbs down. I see this as a last ditch effort in trying to get American players back in the door, at OUR expense. Only play there if you can really wait TWO WHOLE MONTHS to get paid, and take the chance of getting a rubber check.

If you see this as I do, feel free to write Steve @ Bodog and let him know what you think of this promotion. Maybe then they'll get a clue?
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Old 09-23-2008, 06:35 AM   #2
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Default Re: Bodog - Are you kidding me?

Calvin Ayers challenged the US DoJ to come after they did. They targeted Bodog's US facing payment processors and confiscated $22M of Bodog money as it was being shipped to US players as cashouts. Bodog has since been struggling to get payments to US players, with long delays resulting. Non-US players are not reporting delays or difficulties with Bodog payouts.

Still, I can't see any reason it takes 40 days to write and mail a check to someone. Just have it drawn on a foreign bank. The player will still have to wait for the cash, but at least it doesn't make Bodog look so incompetent. Those WU fees are really high, too.
They can take our payment processors, but they'll never take OUR FREEEEEEDOMMMMM!!!!
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Old 09-23-2008, 09:43 AM   #3
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Default Re: Bodog - Are you kidding me?

Well, from what I hear it wasn't actually bodog's money that was confiscated.

Bodog ran it's own processor and processed monery for several other properties. It was their money that was confiscated.

But - this crippled bodog's processing as well as that of the other properties. A much bigger victory for the DOJ - the sum of money seized is a paltry sum for bodog and would not have hurt. Crippling processing hurts a lot.

Why does it take so long to cut a check?

Firstly, the UIGEA has made it illegal for American banks to deal with online gambling companies, so it's not like your online casino can simply cut you a check from its account at Citibank Panama.

Why? Because any basic US Department of Justice investigation will work like this:

Step 1: Sign up and deposit at a casino.
Step 2: Trace that deposit and get that company closed. This is not a big problem for the casino, as described above, but it's still part of the process..
Step 3: Request a payout.
Step 4: Trace the check, and get that bank account closed. Also try to get the issuing bank officially reprimanded for breaking the rules of the UIGEA. If happens often enough, the bank may lose its privilege to do business with American financial institutions. This is a time-consuming and political process, but if it happens, it could be devastating to the bank involved.
Step 5: Repeat.

Now, any company needs a bank account to do business, so it is imperative that online companies keep one bank account clean and free from suspicion. And as Step 4 illustrates, it's not always easy for online gaming companies to find local banks willing to have them as customers. The risk is too high. Once you find a bank, you protect it and do nothing to jeopardize that relationship.

So in order to handle payouts, they need to find a bank or a third party willing to take this risk.

Also keep in mind that this is not just one transaction. Your average online gambling company needs the ability to cut thousands and thousands of checks per year. And the bigger the company, the more checks that have to be cut. At certain periods, like say after the SuperBowl, they might have to cut literally hundreds of checks per day

Now, the actual check cutting is done by "processors". These take advantage of the situation by charging huuuuuge fees and asking for substantial deposits.

But in the processor's defense, they are taking a big risk too. And not to put too fine a point on it, but as Step 4 illustrates, sooner or later these processors are probably going to get shut down. And when they do, it's pretty certain that they will never be able to do business in that manner ever again. Plus, all of the money sitting in the processor's bank account will probably be seized as well.

The bottom line is that these payment processors are involved in a very short-term business, and need to protect themselves too.

But I digress... Depending on the size of the casino, this security deposit might be anywhere from $100K up to literally millions of dollars. Plus, the casino needs to constantly be transferring funds to this processor to handle the day-to-day issuing of checks. In the event of a meltdown, that is a LOT of money that can go down the drain very quickly.

So what we have here is a very risky, but very lucrative, short-term business. You can imagine what kind of entrepreneur is involved here.

In short, there are two types of payment processors. The honest guys who try to put together a good process and avoid getting caught for as long as possible, and then there are the guys who talk a good game but really are more interested in receiving as many security deposits as they can before mysteriously disappearing and claiming to have been shut down. And from the casino's standpoint, there really isn't any reliable way to tell the good guys from the bad.
and so you have this problem:

Since it is involving a third-party, the casino is out of the loop. They really have no immediate way of knowing which checks got cashed, and which checks bounced. It isn't easy to fix a problem when you have no immediate information.

- Is the problem with the processor?
- Is the problem with the customers' bank?
- Are we being scammed by the payment processor?
- Are we being scammed by a syndicate of players (it happens) trying to imitate a meltdown?
- Is it an isolated case involving one particular bank, or is it a wide-spread issue involving a change in American government regulations?

All the casino can do is try to isolate which people are complaining, and try to verify their story - which isn't easy when the third-party processor may or may not be even answering the phone.

The casino doesn't know which players are being honest about the situation and which are trying to capitalize on the confusion to receive an extra payout. Not to mention the fact that the casino has just lost hundreds of thousands of dollars - perhaps millions - and needs to find a new and reliable processor ASAP.

Read more about this here: Spaces-Covers

So it's not as simple at all as going to a bank and cutting a check. It's a total mess. Let's hope that UIGEA gets repealed all the way and things will normalize.
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Old 09-23-2008, 12:10 PM   #4
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Default Re: Bodog - Are you kidding me?

Lots of good info there, Dom.

However - I have received lots of payouts from lots of places. Nobody else needs 40 days. Two weeks is normal in my experience. When I cashed out at Absolute they had a check to me in 4 days, and they are a bunch of cheating scum!

As far as using Western Union, I would not worry too much about it. I use them frequently for sportsbooks, and have never had a problem. If the transaction is less than $1,000 they do not even ask for ID if you're sending the money. For the most part the WU agent is some minimum wage schlep who doesn't really give a rat's patootie if you're laundering money or gambling on the internet. He/she just wants to get you out of the store so he/she can get back on their cell phone call. :smile:
They can take our payment processors, but they'll never take OUR FREEEEEEDOMMMMM!!!!
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